the CONVERSATION WITH NATHAN NALLA
Who are you and what drives you?
My name is Nathan Nalla. I’m Black and of Caribbean descent. My mom is Jamaican and my dad is from Trinidad, but I grew up here in the UK. I identify as gay or queer and as a cis-male. I would say that I come from a less-privileged socio-economic background, raised by an incredible and dedicated single mother.
In terms of the work that I do, I lead an organization called “Be The Riot ” which is all about supporting organizations to create inclusive workplace culture. So, anything that has to do with equity, diversity, and inclusion and focusing on essentially five core areas within that. We focus on gender equality, race, ethnicity, LGBTQ+ identities, social mobility, and disability inclusion but its not limited to those areas. We try to be intersectional, holistic and expansive in our approach, it’s quite broad.
What drives me is a real passion to see a world where it doesn’t matter what background you come from, your identity, the color of your skin, or whether or not you have a disability, you’re able to thrive and progress within your career, and do so successfully.
So, you named your company “Be The Riot”. Why?
It’s a good question, and people ask me that all the time. It’s a bit of a controversial name. And it’s quite polarizing. I don’t think I was fully aware of how polarizing the name might be when I first thought of it!
“The word riot isn’t about talking. It’s about taking action. It’s about people being at the end of their limits and really needing to see change.”
I set up “Be The Riot” back in late 2020. Everyone knows the world context of 2020, the murder of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Ahmaud Arbery, and much more momentum behind the Black Lives Matter movement. It was the middle of the pandemic, and we had people all over the world protesting.
I wanted a name that really spoke to the mission of the work that I do. And a lot of what I’d observed was organizations taking a really gentle approach and doing a lot of talking. And so, the word riot isn’t about talking. It’s about taking action. It’s about people being at the end of their limits and really needing to see change. Alongside that, there’s that famous quote from Martin Luther King who said,
“The Riot is the language of the unheard.”
Dr.martin luther king
So, I think an element of that was in there as well. But I think a lot of it also is about the agency that we have as individuals to create change. When I was working within an organization as an EDI lead, I was constantly having conversations with people who weren’t happy about what they were experiencing and weren’t happy about the situation. And equally, a lot of those people weren’t willing to take any action to try to address the issues that they were facing. And so, I feel like culture change is everyone’s responsibility. And that’s not to say that, if you’re on the receiving end of oppression, then you are responsible for ending oppression. Of course, that doesn’t make sense. But there are actions that we can take in many situations, and it’s about thinking through those actions and joining forces where we can.
It’s interesting that you mentioned this. I normally tell people that DEI is not one person’s job. When a company hires someone in that position, it does not mean that the person should be the only one doing the work. Whatever role you are in, you have to advocate for equality which brings me to my next question: In your opinion, do you think companies are really implementing DEI effectively or it’s just a PR strategy?
Lol! It goes back to the name “Be The Riot”. The part that I didn’t say is that I wanted the name to be polarizing and I wanted it to trigger certain people because I think there are a lot of organizations that will see an organization like “Be The Riot” and say, oh, we could never work with an organization with this name and I’ve actually had conversations with clients about that. They’re like, oh, the image and name that you’re using, our leaders aren’t going to respond really well to that. Can you just explain a bit more what it’s about? And so it’s quite polarizing. And so there are definitely some organizations that I would never work with, right? And I’m cool with that and I kind of want that.
“The work has to start at the top in order for it to be sustainable, in order for it to actually make a real significant difference.”
I wanted to attract organizations that are really serious about doing this work. What I find is that there are a lot of people within organizations who really care about EDI very passionately and I use the term “EDI” but I’m also talking about anti-oppression. I don’t necessarily view myself as an academic and I know there’s a lot of specific terms meaning specific things. But I think when it comes to the workplace, we just need to use language that people recognize, and people respond to. So, I like to take an anti-oppression approach. But I use the terms equity, diversity, and inclusion because they’re easier for people to understand and relate to.
Oftentimes you can get mixed responses. I am very clear with organizations that I have to work with the people at the top. And the work has to start at the top in order for it to be sustainable, in order for it to actually make a real significant difference, and if they’re not willing to do that then I am very honest with them about what’s likely to be the outcome.
Some organizations might want a person to come in and speak on a panel or do a webinar. What change is that going to introduce if you have an ethnicity pay gap or a gender pay gap? Well, actually the work you need to do is addressing your pay issues, right? Or you have imbalances around progression or you’re not hiring anyone with a disability or there are specific things that need to be addressed within an organization and just talking about it isn’t going to do anything. There are lots of organizations that are just about PR and just about getting recognition for doing the bare minimum.
Where do you see the DEI space in the next five years?
Honestly, it feels like it’s just this one big, massive cycle. And I say that because of the history. We’re living in a world that has been built on certain groups benefiting and profiting off the hard labor of other groups, and oppression is real. So, oftentimes you hear people say things like, well, it’s not a zero-sum game. I actually think in many ways it can be a zero-sum game. So, in order for there to be true equity, something has to give. If we look at one organization, for example, and you’re talking about the leadership team. Well, let’s say you have a leadership team of six people. Well, if you want to see critical diversity on that leadership team, then somebody needs to step down and they have to be replaced.
So, there are going to be sacrifices that people in positions of power and people who are privileged, whether that’s white privilege, male privilege, cisgender privilege, all of the privileges. There are things that must shift. And for things to be more equitable, there are sacrifices that individuals must make. And people don’t want to give up their privileges. But there’s also educating people in power around some of these issues that they’re just so distant from.
And so, I’d be lying if I was like, Oh, yeah, in five years’ time, I think we’re going to make real gains. But at the same time, I also feel like this is kind of how progress happens. We take a few steps forward and a couple steps back, we are getting somewhere, it just doesn’t feel very quick and very impactful. And I think these are important lessons for us.
So, in 1 or 2 sentences, how can companies do better from a DEI perspective?
First and foremost, the learning needs to start at the top. Leaders must be aware and understand the challenges that exist within their organization. And there should be a genuine, authentic desire for change. From there, take action.
Thank you, Nathan!
Bio:
Nathan Nalla is the founder and Director of Be The Riot, supporting organizations to create an inclusive working culture through facilitated learning workshops and consultancy services. Nathan supports organizations to develop equity diversity & inclusion strategies from small start-ups to large multinational businesses and charities. Nathan has more than 10 year’s experience designing and facilitating learning content as well as public speaking in a variety of contexts. In 2021, authoring a report for the Charity Learning Consortium, titled “How to Create a learning program for Equity Diversity and Inclusion”.
Nathan’s specialist areas include inclusive leadership, inclusive behaviors, inclusive recruitment, and antiracism. As well as this, a focus on workplace program development for exploring and monitoring inclusive culture, reviewing ways of working, understanding employee and consumer experiences, diversity data collection, and EDI committees and resource groups.
Nathan’s experience also includes working for Stonewall – Europe’s largest LGBTQ+ rights organization – supporting companies to develop inclusive policies and practices. Leading in-house as a diversity and inclusion manager for Soho House, one of the world’s leading private members’ brands, Nathan led on the race equity and mental well-being strategies, taking an intersectional approach to workplace inclusion.
As a man who is racialized as Black and identifies as gay, Nathan uses his personal experiences to shape his work. Seeking to centre the voices of those from underrepresented or underserved groups and to foster approaches to EDI that lead to genuine long-lasting change.
